Cymbals and hi-hats with ddrum4 module

[sudden]

Hey guys!

I recently bought a ddrum4 module (not the SE version) and 5 ddrum meshpads. Now i wanna get some cymbals and a hi-hat for my kit. The ddrum4 module only has one input for hi-hat but all the hi-hats I've seen come with one output for the controller and one for the hats. Is there some kind of adapter available to buy somewhere? And if so, which hats do you guys recommend? The ddrum hi-hat is very rare, I havent found it anywhere.
And then the cymbals. Can I use any cymbals for crash and ride? Will they choke if the cymbals themselves are chokeable? Will I get both a bell and bow sound from a ride cymbal? What kind of cymbals do you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance!

[sam(otacon28)]

Feb 29, 2012 7:11:58 GMT -5 sudden said:

Hey guys!

I recently bought a ddrum4 module (not the SE version) and 5 ddrum meshpads. Now i wanna get some cymbals and a hi-hat for my kit. The ddrum4 module only has one input for hi-hat but all the hi-hats I've seen come with one output for the controller and one for the hats. Is there some kind of adapter available to buy somewhere? And if so, which hats do you guys recommend? The ddrum hi-hat is very rare, I havent found it anywhere.
And then the cymbals. Can I use any cymbals for crash and ride? Will they choke if the cymbals themselves are chokeable? Will I get both a bell and bow sound from a ride cymbal? What kind of cymbals do you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance!

The ddrum module's hihat input takes a stereo cable ( 2 rings on it ) and that runs from the hihat input to the hihat controller itself . There are a few companies out there that make what are called hi hat convertor boxes , but the original ddrum4 hi hat controller only requires one cable to operate . Pintech and Hart Dynamics have made converter boxes that make it possible to use other brand hi hat cymbals with ddrum4 modules but they have varied results . The cymbal pads from ddrum can be used for crash , ride , splash , china , etc. being that you assign the sound from the module itself . Also other electronic cymbals will work with varied results . The original ddrum cymbal pads have choke features on them and work 2 different ways to choke them . To access the choke function you press in the center of the pad instead of the normal grab the edge method and you can also press the center of the pad with your drumstick while playing . Depending on the samples your using some are possible to get bell , bow , & edge sounds on the ride cymbal . This is also obtainable on other cymbal voices too , but is really dependent on the samples you're using . There's a bit of various brands of electronic cymbals that will work with ddrum4 modules . I have personally used Pintech , Roland , Hart Dynamics , Smartrigger , Kit Toys cymbals with the module and had varied results .



sam(otacon28)

[sam(otacon28)]

Here's a picture of what Hart Dynamics converter box looks like . They are pretty hard to find but you may have some luck contacting Hart Dynamics directly to see if they still have any of these available . They like most ddrum gear has been discontinued for several years now , but I do believe Pintech still makes theres . These are made to run with an electronic hi hat pedal and as you can see on the sticker on the box there's input jacks for each ( trigger / pedal )

If you try to contact Pintech ask for Lorrie she's extremely helpful and really knows her stuff about electronic drums . You can also contact Brian at Hope drums .





sam(otacon28)

Attachments:

[drumsonly2002]

Using a converter verses the DDrum HH unit, any trade off in performance and sound? The Pin tec unit www.pintechworld.com/shop2011/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71

[sam(otacon28)]

Mar 7, 2012 8:46:25 GMT -5 drumsonly2002 said:

Using a converter verses the DDrum HH unit, any trade off in performance and sound? The Pin tec unit www.pintechworld.com/shop2011/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=71

There's been some varied debates over this in the past on the old ddrum forum especially , and I can't speak for the Pintech version of the hihat converter box being that I haven't personally used one . The Hart Dynamics one did allow for open and closed function and I was also able to get the pedal sound ( foot chick ) , but I never was able to get the foot splash sound from one although I never really used one for to long to explore it further . I also wasn't able to get the pressure feature on ddrum's hi hat controllers that allow you to choke up the hi hat even tighter and even effect some of the drum sounds when pressing on the hi hat stand pedal harder .



I did find this video of Brian from Hope Drums describing in more detail how Pintech's box is designed and the connection specifics of it . You can email Brian directly from his website www.hopedrums.com/




Here's the video that Brian put together about Pintech's controller box


www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIK8dorMaXU&feature=related





sam(otacon28)

[ddrum4se]

I have the Pin Tech box, and use it with Roland VH12 Hats, (only because I have the Rolands available). I think it works very well indeed - I dont think you get all the nuances of the ddrum HH but it works well enough for me.

There is no doubt you get that something extra with the ddrum cast HH, that you dont get with the Roland and Pintech set up - someone described how "you can hear the note change when you really step on the hi hat just like the real thing" - which I agree with - but then again if you want to make little noise and your wrists have suffered a bit with the ddrum HH, then I think it makes a good alternative.

I have also used Smart Trigger HH`s with the ddrum, along with the PinTech controller box - that worked well too - although I got fed up with the cables, and "bolt on" bits to the HH stand, and constantly re-calibrating the HH`s.

[Deleted]

ddrum4 uses CC4 foot controller for open to closed sounds, and for closed to tight it uses aftertouch, for splashes it's probably a combination of both. So actually 256 levels of open-ness levels! I think these boxes handles foot controller data only. I bought the Midi Solutions Event Processor to convert foot controller data to map different samples uploaded to my ddrum3. I still haven't got around to utilizing aftertouch. It's all a lot of work, but once set up it work very well! I'm a bit burned out on fiddling with gear and samples at the moment, but will probably get back to it one of these days!

[kvas]

To any body with experience connecting non ddrum cymbals to ddrum4 se.
I have only 2 cymbal pads and I would like to have a 1 hihat, 2 crash and a ride setup. I also have some left over Pearl (Alesis) cymbals from my previous kit.
So, is there a way to connect a non ddrum cymbal to get bow and bell sound?
Specifically I have an Alesis DMpad 14 multi-zone with two connectors, which worked fine with TD-9 and produced all 3 zones as it should.

I would be very grateful for some advice on this issue.

Thank you!

Cheers

Zoran

[Deleted]

The zone and choke detection in the ddrum4 (and ddrum3) works completely different from any other brand. You could probably get some different zones detected using a non ddrum cymbal, but performance would be hit-or-miss. Your best bet is to use another module that you know work with the specific cymbalpad, and connect that module via midi to the ddrum4.

[kvas]

Thanks Krillo! That's what I was thinking. It seems to me that ride triggering is somehow velocity dependant and it would be hard to get different sounds of a non ddrum cymbal.
Now for the second module part. Do you have any experience with such connection. More specifically, how many more sounds can I trigger with the second module over MIDI? Is it only limited to 10 channels of the ddrum4, or do I get another 10 or 20 inputs, depending on the second module?

Well, I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask...

Cheers

Zoran

[Deleted]

It's correct that triggering is velocity dependant - different "layers" of the multisample are triggered at different velocities. With the ddrum4 you are limited to the 10 channels, since midi notes are tied to channels (i e inputs of the ddrum4).

With the ddrum3 on the other hand (firmware version 2 and up) you can assign a secondary kit for a total of 20 channels. Several different midi modes are available aswell.

[kvas]

Thanks Krillo!

Since I see you have an extensive experience with the dd3 I will ask just one question. How do you compare dd3 and dd4 cymbal sounds, are they realistic? And is there a way to load the dd3 with the dd4 sounds?

Now I just have to find another one somehow, as they are not so many ddrum modules here in the ads. Lots of pads and hardware but no modules...

Thank again!

Cheers

Zoran

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2012 11:34:05 GMT -5 kvas said:

Thanks Krillo!

Since I see you have an extensive experience with the dd3 I will ask just one question. How do you compare dd3 and dd4 cymbal sounds, are they realistic? And is there a way to load the dd3 with the dd4 sounds?

To be honest, the stock dd3 cymbal sounds (there are just a few) sound awful by todays standards. What you can do with the dd3 (if you also have PCMCIA cards) is to create your own multisampled cymbals, and even have them loop at the end to create a natural sounding decay. The problem with large multisamples is that they "eat up a lot of polyphony". This is because the stock sounds are data compressed, and the sample dumped (the ones you create yourself) are not, so they use up more of the modules capacity. You could probably load the stock dd3 cymbal sounds in the dd4, but I think you will be disappointed.

[adagio]

Have any of You Gentlemen got any experience with 2box cymbals and hi-hat being connected to Ddrum4 module? I've an opportunity to buy complete 2box cymbal setup for good price. I'm interested in hi-hat especially, is the rule of work any similar to original dd4? I do not own any dd4 pads, they are not easy obtainable in my area, and cymbal/hi-hat pads are non-existant, we all know that I use 2box pads as snare/tom pads and they do the job. I used to play roland cymbal pads via TD3 module as a MIDI interface connected to DD4, but I just want to upgrade things a little.

[Deleted]

The zone detection is quite different between 2box and ddrum. 2box use velocity swiching between bow and bell, and filmswich for edge sounds. You will get some sounds from the 2box cymbals, but zones will be random. (They pretty much are even with the ddrum cast cymbals!) Choking will probably not work. The 2box hihat I'm pretty sure will not work with the dd4.

It's pretty easy to build your own cymbals for ddrum. Just a flat metalsheet (or two sanwiched w rubber between) and some rubber on top with piezo in the middle.